Russians do not hate Americans. In the abstract Russia dislikes America and some of its policies, but if you ever meet Russian people, they are almost all friendly. I visit a lot of countries, including Russia, and as a general rule find nothing but good will for Americans, and all other foreigners.

hate to break it to you dude, but all non americans hate americans


And you're totally kidding, I suspect, because that's not even remotely true.

Well, maybe not hate exactly, but ...

hate to break it to you dude, but all non americans hate americans


So enlighten me dude. What is your dream for the world? Want us in concentration camps? Up against the wall for some target practice?

Do we have some strange new type of Nazi in our midst? Any good pamphlet I should read to get your master plan?

Choose your words more carefully. 'Hate" is extreme man.

haha chill...that was in response to the dude who said "russians hate americans" and it was meant as a joke..mostly anyway. your not as popular as some of you think with teh rest of the world, but you are right, hate is a very strong word....and we can always hope that with a change in leadership alot of that animosity will go away

meant as a joke, not to offend anybody

you're not as popular as some of you think with the rest of the world



That's kinda what I was trying to say

Thoughtful Americans know that most thoughtful people on this planet don't hate Americans. They might disagree (and even hate) some of this country's policies. (Not all of us here agree with all of our country's policies, either.) But that's a far cry from hating Americans.

It's the thoughtless ones that toss around the word "hate" and direct it at individuals that are the problem.

Walk around any big city in the United States. We're loaded with faults, prejudices, and stupid ideas. And yet look at those people. People from everywhere living together, loving each other, and making gorgeous kids. To "hate" Americans is to hate everyone, because there's someone here from everywhere else.

(That's not to say we're unique in that regard. But we're not the last to arrive at this point, either.)

and we can always hope that with a change in leadership alot of that animosity will go away


I have no great love for that last administration. Also was disgusted by the Republican's campaign this year. That party has some serious, fundamental problems to deal with, ugly and unacceptable to many americans. I hope that it will change and we will have a healthy two party system again.

It is funny to note that the antics of those guys is part of the reason I got into F4F. I really doubt I'd be so into this if it wasn't for them.

One of the great outstanding problems of mankind is that we have such lousy ways of picking our leaders. They really are a poor slice of the people they supposedly represent. Our choices in elections usually are pretty dismal compared to what they could be. The candidates just don't seem to often be our best people. Whether the system is inefficient at producing them or whether the positions just doesn't appeal to our brightest lights.

So I really doubt that any other nation that suddenly finds itself in a position where it is effecting a lot of people's lives is going to do a whole lot better on average than we do. Everybody is picking their leaders in pretty similar ways. I don't see any breakthrough system operating anywhere else in the world. So maybe what is really needed is to kick the philosophers in their pants and have them do some more work in the political arena. I don't know, i don't know I am just a simple man.

So cut us some slack. Be patient with our own brand of stupidity. We don't have the market cornered. We'll make it through this period until China, or whoever, starts to really drive things.

"you're not as popular as some of you think with the rest of the world"

When traveling, some Americans during the Bush would claim to be Canadians. Does that demonstrate that we think we're popular? Quite the contrary.

That you THINK that, that we're a bunch of stuck-up jerks, says more about your attitudes toward others than ours. Most people here are just like people everywhere: trying to get through the day and to our next paycheck, trying to raise our kids to be good people, and maybe trying to contribute a little toward making everything better for everyone.

You can think whatever you want about "Americans" but don't forget: We call came from somewhere else. We're just you a few generations removed.

we're a bunch of stuck-up jerks


Your words, Randdom. Not xxJDxx's, not mine. But if the cap fits ...

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Russians do not hate Americans. In the abstract Russia dislikes America and some of its policies, but if you ever meet Russian people, they are almost all friendly. I visit a lot of countries, including Russia, and as a general rule find nothing but good will for Americans, and all other foreigners.


I agree with you on this. I have found that Russians (and Ukrainians) are always friendly to everyone who shows respect towards them. I have not visited Russia but i have visited Eastern Europe and seen that they show generosity to everyone.

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The actions of 1 country no matter wether its America, Ghana, Malawi or Bolivia will always have other countries complaining, We dont live in a perfect world. Thankfully those that 'hate' another country are hopefully a minority.

To quote Bill Hicks

You know all that money we spend on nuclear weapons and defense each year, trillions of dollars, correct? Instead -- just play with this -- if we spent that money feeding and clothing the poor of the world -- and it would pay for it many times over, not one human being excluded -- we can explore space together, both inner and outer, forever in peace.

Allright I think I am getting you a little better. Let me respond to a few of your points:

> not american, or pro-american = concentration camp + nazi supporter (or terrorist)

Yes that disgusting trick has been used by some of the powerful in our country. As has scapegoating. Dim witted people who use these ham fisted, cynical political tricks should not be in power, and I think you observed in the last election that many of them were removed from office. It is shameful that they ever held office, or were ever able to use such tactics with any credibility. It just shows how far we have to go, how we need to learn some more lessons from the past.

But I was not using that trick with you. I don't give a damn whether you are pro-American, what you think about my government's policies. Even if I do agree more with an administration than I have in the past. What I do care about is whether you hate Americans or whether you exploit that feeling in other people for some dark motive. Whether you use us as scapegoats for some problem of your own perhaps as a ploy to gain more power or whatever.

When you use words like 'hate' and don't use enough words to specify what you are talking about, you appear to be using tactics very similar to those inept leaders of ours. As if you are capitalizing on digust with a government to stir up resentment against a people.

When you say 'chill' instead of simply apologizing, you seem to be trying to reverse the tables with an argument strategy instead of having any sincere regret for your remarks.

> just because i don't believe in the bullshit propaganda your country loves to throw at the world

Dim witted leaders spew silly things out of their mouth. Only one political party in the US seems to enjoy this approach. So your remark is an exaggeration, perhaps deliberately inflammatory.

> and, fair or unfair, the actions of a nation are reflected back on that nations citizens as individuals

No, sorry, that is unacceptable. You are a mature, intelligent adult. You are capable of bookkeeping the difference between government policy and a people. If you choose not to do so, it makes me suspect that you have other motives than sweetness and light.

I am glad you had some words in there about the basic goodness of the people, aside from a few tools. But the things I've indicated are troubling. Makes me wonder what you really think.

suggs: if only it could be that simple dude

dudley, lets continue the one point at a time approach ;)

1. the nazi/terrorist/etc point: if you were not trying to imply my support of these things as a direct result of my being anti-american (again, american as a nation, not as individuals), why did you even bring em up? those were your words not mine brother i have already conceded to you that 'hate' was a strong word and i shouldn't have used it. we are not arguing that. but you throwing nazi back at me for cracking a joke at america's expense can not be justified there man. and i have not apologized because there is no need to. i have already stated that my original joke was just that, and not meant to offend anybody. as far as my opinions, they don't require an apology any more than yours do

2. your right, that is pretty inflammatory. however, it is something I as an individual feel very strongly about. I don't really think i exaggerated much at all actually. I will say in retrospect that the kinds of things i am speaking about have thus far been very republican as you say (or imply..i am sure you weren't talking about the dems when you said one party though), so hopefully they are not going to be an issue for the next 4 years at a minimum. but the fact remains that for the past 8 years, far too much of it has come out of your country. if, as a people, you didn't agree with it, why did it continue? i mean christ, they impeached clinton for getting a blowjob.....

3. its true. i can distinguish the difference for sure, and as I said, the vast majority of people (not just from america, but from everywhere I think) are basically good. that being said, it is unfortunately part of the world we live in. We are held, at least to some degree, resposnsible for the actions of our respective leaders/countries. there are countless cases of this, and it happens in every country in the world. it happens in your country,and in mine too.

I don't think the actions of a persons nation should sum up that person as a whole, but i believe it is right that there is some reflection there. it is these things that cause people to stand together and make changes. people can only put so much blame on their country's leaders before they have to shoulder some too. that is the difference between a democracy and a dictatorship. those of us who live in free countries can not get away with simply saying "well that was (Leader X) doing that and not me, i don't agree with that!". it's bullshit. we live in countries where we have the power to make changes if our governments actions don't support our beliefs as a nation. and as a result of that, their actions are in part our responsibility too. as i said in the last point, if a president can be impeahced for gettin a hummer, obviously the people have the power to control who leads them and how.

and finally, let's not lose sight of the fact that while i enjoy discussing things, particularly inflammatory things (i really do, i'm like this in 'real life' too) this discussion was not planned, it was a reaction to a joke i made, and might not be totally appropriate for this venue. nobody reads the forums with a hardon so i doubt we are killing anybody's mood, but if this topic is inappropriate discussion material for this particular place, i do apologize for my part in it. talking about shit is, as i said, something i enjoy doing, but i don't really want to offend anybody, or polarize this entire site and its community or something haha.

so what i am trying to say is.....while i am awaiting a reply and actually enjoying this debate of ours....everyone should understand that (for my part, i can't speak for my counterpart) there is absolutely no hard feelings, no emotional attachment here (other than of course a belief in what I am saying).....to me its a calm, well presented argument and not a fight ;) that can be hard to convey over the internet though and I don't want to be misunderstood!

they impeached clinton for getting a blowjob.....

i didnt know Clinton was impeached.

he most certainly was

this is not my own statement, copy pasted, i wanted the dates correct:

Bill Clinton, President of the United States was impeached by the House of Representatives on December 19, 1998, and acquitted by the Senate on February 12, 1999. The charges, perjury, obstruction of justice, and abuse of power arose from the Monica Lewinsky scandal and the Paula Jones law suit. The trial proceedings were largely party-line, with no Democratic Senators voting for conviction and only five Democratic Representatives voting to impeach. In all, 55 senators voted not guilty, and 45 voted guilty on the perjury charge. The Senate also acquitted on the charge of obstruction, with 50 votes cast as not guilty, and 50 votes as guilty.[1] It was only the second impeachment of a President in American history, following the impeachment of Andrew Johnson in 1868.


he was impeached (accused, charged) but NOT convicted by the Senate.
hope that helps clear it up

Ok xxJDxx, I think we are making some progress, and think we'll wrap things up soon. Yes I agree that we have kept the tone quiet, businesslike, for the most part, to our credit. I see a little of your warm, human side peeking through, man, so forgive my businesslike tone in the following:

1. the nazi/terrorist/etc point: if you were not trying to imply my support of these things as a direct result of my being anti-american (again, american as a nation, not as individuals), why did you even bring em up?

Yep I started in with a series of tough, leading questions. If ever I see a use of 'hate' in that way, this is to be expected. I make no apology for that. I wanted to underscore how outrageous a statement it was, especially since it looked to me that the initial reply was too polite, given the statement.

Your comment was not a joke. And I am never going to let such a thing go by unchallenged. I am glad to see a bit stronger statement from you about how inappropriate it was. I don't really think now that you are a terrorist or some kind of Nazi. But I do suspect that you might get some weird kind of joy from making me apologize over and over for my former government. Kind of a shame fetish maybe.

I suggest we drop this point. You don't like how I approached this and I don't like how reluctant you have been to simply say that it was wrong to make such a 'joke' with no qualification. I don't give a damn about how obnoxious our policy has been in the US when considering this point, this is a kind of 'joke' that we don't make in such a public forum. You have other places where you can relax and let it all hang out with like minded people. Places where people understand your subtleties better and therefore don't need lengthy explanations of what you really mean.

2. To paraphrase the question you asked: If, as a people, Americans don't agree with their government's policies then how do the leaders stay in power?

When we elect an administration we do not endorse all their views. In America, as a practical matter, we are given only the choice between the candidate from party A or the one from party B. Many of us do not agree with all the aspects of either party's platform. The platforms are not made by the American people. They are made by the parties, which do not always reflect at all the much larger body of the people. These platforms are often made with cynical choices on stances and weight to give issues. The parties want power. They tailor their platforms to get it.

We have to look at what is going on in our country and simply pick the better choice of the two people running from the largest two parties. Many of us deliberately will swing between parties election to election , being fickle, for that reason. You might hate the foreign policy but prefer the economic policy of some candidate. In fact I'd suspect that in times of peace it is the economic policy that most drives people's thinking . Things are further complicated by the fact that after they arrive in office they are free to go back on their campaign promises.

I have to laugh at your statement regarding impeachment. Yes Clinton was raked over the coals for his blowjob. But it merely slowed him down. He never left office until he was voted out in the next election. What an example of our limited choices. This strange man appears to be a veritable genius compared to our alternatives from the other camp. lol. So cry a few tears for us. We have it rough.

As the last administration demonstrated, with a president holding power unmolested with such low public approval ratings, it would take one hell of a series of screw ups to succeed at removing a president from office. lol.

Surely you must understand this? I'd imagine that your system is similar. It is hard to make such a crazy system do what you want. Especially when the parties don't seem to get true message behind some defeat or success.

3. On the responsibility of the people as a whole.

Yes this is an interesting point of course. There are problems you can point at with the American people. As a whole they don't put enough value on education. As a whole they are probably too superstitious. As a whole they often have a strange set of priorities. As a whole they are not good about requiring objective sources of information - oftentimes being satisfied with feel good sources or sources that cater to their own points of view. As a whole they are kind of oblivious, often, to what is going on outside of their borders.

Again, the government that was exceptionably objectionable is no longer in power. I think the people acted. You have to give them some time to figure out what is going on and then they will act. After all, they are leading their lives primarily. They are making the best of limited time and education. Imperfect news sources. The reluctance to spend precious free time in some higher social obligation.

The new government won't be perfect. We'll still trip around a little bit with our flys open I'd imagine. The world is a complicated place and we are just simple men. We feel a duty to pitch in and give help around the world. Yet often are clumbsy and impolite in our ways of doing it.

So big news, we are human. Do I need to say more?