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Male Performer Chat: VIP peak being eliminated this week

Created by: ronnie-uk

12/1/12 @ 7:00pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,381

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The whole character of the site will change soon, I think....and not for the better.

I was wondering about that, bisport.

Very often a model with a busy room will start a multi-user show. (I think the model can initiate it. It seems to happen without any member asking for it). Previously I would wait for a peek or 2. That helped me to decide whether to join the show, wait until it was finished or leave the room.

Now I just leave the room immediately. If everyone does that, then models are not going to be very successful with multi. They will know that multi might just clear the room. Others have mentioned that pvt shows will clear the room too. A bigger change than VS perhaps anticipated.

There remains a mystery as to why VS only announced the change in the General Discussions forum. The peek through the curtains that VIPs used to get was 5 seconds of live video from the current show every minute. Not sure if the peek for non-VIPs was exactly the same, or whether it was simply a still frame of the current action. That might still remain a possibility without compromising security

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Created by: .jeffie.

12/1/12 @ 7:10pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Brisbane, Australia

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There remains a mystery as to why VS only announced the change in the General Discussions forum

It was a mistake. It is apparent that the anonymous F4F staff member who made the announcement was under the impression that only VIPs got the "peek"

Not sure if the peek for non-VIPs was exactly the same, or whether it was simply a still frame of the current action

A long, long time ago, I think even before the advent of the curtains, VIPs used to get a larger window than non-VIPs when a model was in private. Since the advent of the curtains VIPs and non-VIPs have had exactly the same "peek" at the live action for 5 seconds out of every 60. I'm almost sure about this

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Created by: bisporti23

12/1/12 @ 7:32pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Germany
Posts: 455

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Now I just leave the room immediately. If everyone does that, then models are not going to be very successful with multi. They will know that multi might just clear the room. Others have mentioned that pvt shows will clear the room too. A bigger change than VS perhaps anticipated.

Ronnie, that�s my misgiving exactly.

Not sure if the peek for non-VIPs was exactly the same, or whether it was simply a still frame of the current action. That might still remain a possibility without compromising security

..and yes: non-vip�s got the same peeks up to now. Now it�s a still-pic for multi-user and black screen for privates.

I can�t follow the security-argumentation, though. One can take screen-shots from privates or groups etc. anytime, can�t he?

Bisport

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Created by: ronnie-uk

12/1/12 @ 7:53pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,381

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I can�t follow the security-argumentation, though. One can take screen-shots from privates or groups etc. anytime, can�t he?

Bisport - I don't think there is any security problem from showing a still frame of the action every minute. Or 30 seconds - hey - that might actually be an improvement

I think the security problem is in making the live private/multi video stream available to everyone each minute. That must be allowing others to break into or capture the video stream, and I can fully understand VS wanting to eliminate that.

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Created by: .jeffie.

12/1/12 @ 7:55pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Brisbane, Australia

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I can�t follow the security-argumentation, though. One can take screen-shots from privates or groups etc. anytime, can�t he?

It's not about taking screenshots. It's about making recordings of entire private shows, including what happens when the curtains are closed, and making those recording available elsewhere on the Internet

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Created by: spar

12/1/12 @ 8:56pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Posts: 346

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I like it that preview is taken away - it makes my private shows a bit more private. The show I buy, I buy for myself and not for public amusement.

just my :twocents

What is so private about a private that can be bought by anyone later at a fraction of the cost? It is the the end of the era of outlandishly priced privates or lead to an increase of it?
I see your point about making it a little 'more' private for the live time as it occurs.

I was wondering why I sensed a general increase in morale among models aprox 10 days ago.

The preview will be easy for me to adjust to. I don't want to freeload on another's earned turf, and I will also get giddy on my increased savings rate.

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Created by: wonderboi2009

12/1/12 @ 9:01pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Kansas, US
Posts: 417

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It's not about taking screenshots. It's about making recordings of entire private shows, including what happens when the curtains are closed, and making those recording available elsewhere on the Internet

Is that an educated guess or insider information? It definitely matches my assumptions about the client/server architecture and the vulnerability they're trying to address.

Like somebody earlier kind of suggested, could you send realtime snapshots (frame captures) of the pvt show that were updated every 10 or 20 secs down the stream (still using the 5 sec every 60 sec curtains) and meet the security objective while getting back a lot of the advantages of the peeks?

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Created by: spar

12/1/12 @ 10:02pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Posts: 346

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This kinda reminds me of how spy rings opperated in World War II. They will tell you it is for security, when actually they will try to cattle prong you into buying some kind of bargain somewhere else. Say one thing, but really try to get you to do something else.
I guess we where not quick enough to go multi voyeur. So they impose this on us.
No skin off my back.
A call too arms my brothers : BURN THE CURTAINS DOWN.
Let us all gaze at one still shot, it is a far more of a nicer experience than to stare at darkness , green bots. An abyss of nothiness.
Take the bloody curtains away.
You don't need them anywhere.

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Created by: spar

12/1/12 @ 10:02pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Posts: 346

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Created by: .jeffie.

12/1/12 @ 10:03pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Brisbane, Australia

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Is that an educated guess or insider information?

It's what I've read elsewhere in the forums

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Created by: Luk A

12/2/12 @ 1:56am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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maybe i see ur point about pvt but multi suffers big time i wont pay 90 credits to see that there just talking

Don't pay 90 credits for the multi user, ask the model, when he is free, to switch in standard pvt and pay 90 credits or what ever the cost is, for what YOU want to do, just direct your show. This is what i miss of the "old" site when i joined lot of years ago before party and group chat were introduced, members being active sharing with me their tastes and fantasies and not just waiting for a "i do this or that for xxx credits"

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Created by: phil_usa

12/2/12 @ 12:34pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Driving Down Thunder Road
Posts: 4,747

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...I think this new change will lead to many fewer members joining in a multi-user show. It will also lead to a lot fewer members staying in a room when the model goes into a show. I don't know much about this so called security issue, but I do know that it has really taken away something that I have used quite a bit and will no longer be using it. To say it simply, I hate this new change. :mad

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Created by: madison61

12/2/12 @ 9:16pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Texas
Posts: 165

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A customer would be foolish to enter a voyeur or multi-user show without knowing whether the model was performing or just chatting. The peek was an enticement to join the action.

Another consideration is even more important. I'll use an example from the chatroom of Kenni, a Saint Petersburg model who left the site in July. His room nearly always had many visitors who in time became familiar with each other. The room was always full of good-spirited banter that sustained a party atmosphere. When Kenni was in private the conversation continued and the visitors remained. Each time the curtains opened there was amusing chatter about what Kenni was doing. Even if the private show lasted thirty minutes many visitors stayed put. Sometimes a visitor would disappear only to report a little later that he had joined the show for a few minutes. Flirt4Free might think the visitors would disperse to other rooms, but that's not necessarily the case. Some would leave the site altogether. Keeping the crowd together will be much more difficult under the new procedure. Kenni's room wasn't the only one I've known where visitors continued the party when a show was in progress, but his is a good example.

Also, two of the major Saint Petersburg studios don't allow the viewing of their VODs except by the primary customer. Lacking VODs, the best way for a member to judge a model's willingness to please and performance ability was to peek during a show. Now that option has been taken away and the customer's opportunity to make an informed decision before taking one of those models private has been hobbled.

The posting of videos of Flirt4Free models on other sites is a problem; I've accidentally run across some of them. I'm far from computer literate but I don't see how such bootlegging can be avoided. If that's the problem Flirt4Free hopes to avoid I don't expect success. Thieves are clever and ubiquitous.

My expectation is that the absence of the peek will detract from the pleasure of customers. A feature that has distinguished Flirt4Free from inferior sites and helps one understand its higher rates is a sense of community that simply doesn't exist at the cheap sites. This forum is part of that. It would seem to me that Flirt4Free should be hesitant to eliminate a feature that contributes powerfully to its customers' satisfaction, the five-second peek.

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Created by: kheldarxy

12/3/12 @ 12:43am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Posts: 361

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Created by: Jonathan Phoenix

12/3/12 @ 4:52am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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In my opinion, peeks should be available for 10 credits, and provide 30 seconds of video. No more than 1 peek per-room per 10 minutes. Peeks should only be allowed on shows that allow for voyeur or multi. The difference between a peek and just going voyeur/multi is that it can be done anonymously to see if one is interested in going voyeur/multi.

A person going pvt should have the option at an additional 10 cpm to make it so no one can go voyeur (ie- truly private). Right now the only way to do this is if the model is in a split pvt/multi rate (ex: 60/40); in that case voyeur isn't an option.

Implementing both would allow users who want truly private privates, and allow for peeks on shows where voyeur/multi is expected so users know if they want to buy the entire show.

I think KheldarXY is onto something that is as brilliant as it is simple. In reading the messages to this post it is obvious that most members are expressing reluctance (if not anger) at the change. When I think of the proposed update to the site I think of it from multiple perspectives.

MEMBER - A member who takes a model to private has taken the initiative to live out a mutual fantasy and expects the model to be fun, charming, and engaging. Models should know how to treat their fans.

VOYEUR - A voyeur usually has two reasons for not being the person who initiates a private chat. 1) They are simply shy and don't know how to express what they want to a model 2) They want to see what the model does in private to get a better sense of whether the model meets their standards and expectations.

MODEL - We want to have fun and enjoy getting to know our fans. We are inviting you to share a very intimate part of our lives and therefore want you to be playful and sincere about what it is that you like. We will be respectful of those fantasies and also expect you to be respectful of our need for discretion and privacy with some of the things that we do/share with you.

What KheldarXY suggests is a great way to meet the desires of the member, voyeur, and model without sacrificing the experience we have come to enjoy on the site.

Having said that, I also want to remind you of something that hasn't been discussed much on this post. The broadcaster's perspective is crucial when talking about the kind of interaction that occurs when you log in. One of the reasons they cite is that "the 5-second 'peek' was causing a number of issues thwarting our efforts to further improve the security of our live video streams and we made the decision to scrap the 'peek' so we can provide the most secure streams possible." I think that is a logical reason.

This update has happened and we will all adapt. I think members just want to know what the next phase will be. When the broadcaster makes changes it is because they want to improve the experience you have online. Continue to give your feedback, but remember to make it constructive so that steps are taken in the right direction.

Hugs,
Jonathan Phoenix
Twitter: @_J_Phoenix
Fan Club: www.jonathanphoenix.com

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Created by: alberich

12/3/12 @ 5:00am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: breaking in, shaping up, then checking out
Posts: 970

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Created by: forgottenclone

12/3/12 @ 7:51am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
Posts: 799

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While I personally don't believe for a split second that the peeks were taken away because of video security, I do believe that we are overlooking a most obvious reason. Perhaps once again, we are being quietly corralled like cattle toward something we did not want nor asked for.

On October 3, in the News and Announcements forum, VS launched their new patent-pending Super Voyeur technology with a poorly planned and executed "free demo" that was, shall I say, less than warmly received by F4F members.

Per VS--"The interface has been redesigned from the ground-up and has many different features built-in. You can experiment with the two different layouts, try double-clicking to open or move streams and much more."

Yeah well, a $$$ state-of-the-art prototype voyeur program that no one likes or uses isn't going to pay for itself. For those who haven't used it, you can actually voyeur two private shows for 20cpm which works out to 10cpm each (So THERE are your 10 credit peeks).

It's an awkward and inconvenient program. You have to leave the model's room in order to sign into the Super Voyeur, view two streams at one time to get the discounted rate, and of course you have to have a minimum of 300 credits in your wallet. I don't even think all the models are required to participate.

Not exactly user-friendly, but you catch the $$$ drift, right? I'd predict that taking away the curtain peek is the first step to phasing out the old way of show voyeurism entirely.

I could be wrong, but I thought it was worth pointing out.

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Created by: chesthairslave

12/3/12 @ 7:13pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Washington, DC.

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forgottenclone's idea is pretty good for those with no choice, but still want a quick peak. I congratulate his cleverness.

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Created by: ronnie-uk

12/3/12 @ 7:43pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,381

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taking away the voyeur feature for security reason ( which i appreciate ) and bringing it back for money is a poor act

I agree, Alberich :thumbsup

If VS decide to replace the free peeks with paid peeks, as Kheldar suggests, I will start to share some of ForgottenClone's cynicism about the "security" reasons for the change :winkwink

In the original General Discussion forum topic, ShowMeNipplePlay has just made the following neat point in a longer post:

The changes you implement in response to the privacy issues and concerns you have with hackers should only affect the hackers.

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Created by: male4622

12/3/12 @ 8:58pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: United States
Posts: 571

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I am ambivalent on this change.

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