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Male Performer Chat: F4($)F TAKES more away from its members

Created by: ronnie-uk

1/6/13 @ 5:32pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,381

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Ronnie: Numbers of posts in forum should and shall never be a criterion for importance of a reply. It is and was my opinion he shared - and it has same importance if he would have agreed to any statement of any newbie - or only gave his own statement.

Everybody has his own opinion - and as long as it doesn't hurt others in any way, no opinion should be denigrated only because someone disagrees

Totally agree, Alberich :thumbsup

I simply felt that Cooper was being treated unfairly here, and thought that the post count reference helped to emphasise that his views were not so "naive" as had been suggested :winkwink

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Created by: threshold

1/6/13 @ 5:55pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Posts: 5

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To be fair, the model was simply agreeing with an experienced Forum Veteran (5,677 posts) :winkwink

I am always pleased to see the views of models as well as members on the topics here...

I may be new to these fora, but I have been a member of this site for almost 8 years. I have been reading everybody's opinions regarding various topics but I have always decided not to share thoughts---until recently. F4F has implemented quite a barrage of changes affecting members which In my opinion are really putting us at a disadvantage, thus my few comments that I agree you can count with my one hand. Anyways, happy new year to all!!

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Created by: ronnie-uk

1/6/13 @ 11:52pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,381

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Threshold

First of all, apologies if my defence of Cooper came across as a criticism of you. Sometimes difficult to get the right balance...

Secondly, the fact that you only have 5 posts after 8 years here reinforces the comments made by Alberich and Asti better than anything else I have seen. We are all equal in the forums. Post counts don't tell the full story, and they don't make us any more or less equal.

Thirdly, I agree that 2012 was not a good year for F4F members. VS made a number of "improvements" which were of no interest to many members (including Super Voyeur and changes to the My Accounts page). Worst of all (for me) were the "improvements" which made things worse: a 600% rise in the price of some VODs; no VODs for short pvt shows (2 to 4 mins); abolishing the 25 credits tip button (later restored); and removing the peek option for private and multi shows.

I made my complaints about the first 3 of these "improvements" in the appropriate forums. On the last one - which is most relevant to the current topic - there is a post from Kheldar in a separate topic which makes the case for removing the peek option much better than VS themselves seem able to do. I am personally persuaded by the security arguments.

Getting right back on topic, it is true that VS are in the business of making money (like all businesses). I think it is in the interest of most of us here that they continue to do so. The site continues to attract many truly wonderful models (as I mentioned in my latest topic here), and I hope it will continue to do so for a long time.

Despite the various criticisms, VS continue to do a great job of making all the models available to all the members on a truly international basis in different modes (open, group, party, multi, private and VOD). The task of making everything work well in a very diverse PC, laptop, tablet and mobile market, and ensuring that the financial side of things is handled correctly and securely, is some achievement. I think, to be fair (again), it deserves a mention.

Ronnie

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Created by: scottysc

1/7/13 @ 8:14am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Posts: 7

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I like Flirt4Free and have enjoyed visiting from time to time. I have found some of the improvements beneficial for members and others more beneficial for models. I suppose VS is seeking to strike a balance and to appease both sides and all stakeholderse, include itself. Of course, VS is a business but by the some token there is an inherent tension between members and models - members want more value in terms of greater credits for less spend and models want to do or show less and receive more for the same time spent. There is no short answer - but the prevalence of significant competition from various other sites as well as free porn sites necessarily will temper or reign in any practices that are less than fair or generous. I think this is an important fact. Long and short, if F4F does not appease members - members will walk and spend less - because harsher or stingy practices will discourage members from spending. AND yet, the same goes for models. BUT that said, lifting the shift-share proportion or rate of return per minute to models vis-a-vis to VS may be a better way to go...

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Created by: louisphillippe

1/7/13 @ 4:23pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Momentarely in this galaxy while the mother ship r
Posts: 1,234

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Agreed.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
Customer service is paramount.
It's the founding principal of any retail or service
supplying company of any kind.
Repeat customers and word of mouth are 99.9999%
of the success.
The scales are dipping down one way only.
Want to quadruple your earnings?: keep them
coming back and give a little to get a lot more.

Just my :twocents

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Created by: Casey Caine

1/8/13 @ 1:42am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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: jerk off :bulb

OK i can see where the concern about the site being too expensive.. As a internet perv and virtual smut spender i concur on having more and better specials for you guys! Its just a business and its all about prophit. F4F has to pay broadcasting company i am sure. I am sure they have to pay any fines for rules they break or if one of their models break. Give some suggestions they wont hurt any i am all about bringing them up. The site is run by some cool people man they are humans and they will do what they can to accomidate you guys i know this. My suggestion would be to give them some suggestions or things they can do that do not sound crazy but ones that are fair. I might be just the new model on the site but i as a previous member myself know about the credit spending and private show and voeyer problems, having to refresh and waisting credits on your computer loading and shit. If i am off topic and sound like i am sticking up for the site i am only stating what my experiece on getting good results have been.So lets try it lets give some suggestions to them and see what happens. Dont critisize the site it wont get results done. You as the customer and the one who is keeping the site alive has the strongest voice. Give it a shot! Give them some suggestions on cool deals and things they can do !Anyways til next time .Peace!!!

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Created by: manner321

1/9/13 @ 11:04pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Posts: 9

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Don't you think the business part should be models concern not yours ?You can start a private show anytime you want.Once more - I said my opinion, I do pvts for my amusement - not for others. Am even old enough to ask and start my own show - its soooo easy: even the multi button works when curtain is open.Most of female top performers have blocked their vods - not for not knowing how to block or unblock the vods - it is a bit of privacy for them. And as I stated before: taking away the preview doesn't prevent others to peek in - but less members will do it. That makes my shows more private for me.So once more : I love it that they took the preview away - and I have no idea why it does harm you that the whole room can't spy in YOUR shows.Concerning saving the money from started multi / voyeur: why don't you use that to get your own fantasies fulfilled ?Ronnie: Numbers of posts in forum should and shall never be a criterion for importance of a reply. It is and was my opinion he shared - and it has same importance if he would have agreed to any statement of any newbie - or only gave his own statement.Everybody has his own opinion - and as long as it doesn't hurt others in any way, no opinion should be denigrated only because someone disagreesBTW: 5678 posts now :p

Don't you think the business part should be models concern not yours ?
You can start a private show anytime you want.

Once more - I said my opinion, I do pvts for my amusement - not for others. Am even old enough to ask and start my own show - its soooo easy: even the multi button works when curtain is open.

Most of female top performers have blocked their vods - not for not knowing how to block or unblock the vods - it is a bit of privacy for them. And as I stated before: taking away the preview doesn't prevent others to peek in - but less members will do it. That makes my shows more private for me.
So once more : I love it that they took the preview away - and I have no idea why it does harm you that the whole room can't spy in YOUR shows.
Concerning saving the money from started multi / voyeur: why don't you use that to get your own fantasies fulfilled ?

Ronnie: Numbers of posts in forum should and shall never be a criterion for importance of a reply. It is and was my opinion he shared - and it has same importance if he would have agreed to any statement of any newbie - or only gave his own statement.

Everybody has his own opinion - and as long as it doesn't hurt others in any way, no opinion should be denigrated only because someone disagrees

BTW: 5678 posts now :p

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Created by: manner321

1/9/13 @ 11:05pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Posts: 9

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Created by: Megan Brite

1/11/13 @ 5:19am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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Did you think a multi millions Euros enterprise would be here
for any other purpose than making tons of money ?
I,for one,never would spend a cent in a "voyeur" show without
knowing what's going on.
Why?
Because it takes a while to connect to the model's room
while the meter is running,many times I'd need to refresh and
come back "in".
After I did with the meter already running, it took me a couple
of minutes to properly disconnect and I often ended up paying
18 or more credits for viewing NOTHING but a mute typing show.
:thumbsup

I agree with you,little or no benefits are left
for members except to pay through their noses.
I think soon they'll demand a fee for logging in or a minimum
credits spent per month to remain a member in good standing or
you could be graciously kicked out.
:evil

( I hope I'm not giving F4F any bright ideas...)
But with all the competition ( many owned by F4F itself ) it has
become a "cut throat monopoly to skin alive the customers and
screw the models" type of a deal...

What do you suggest we could do about it??
I'm all out of ideas...

Best wishes and HAPPY NEW YEAR !!

just my :twocents

Dont forget about models) it's not easy to be model here!You as if break off on pieces thirsting sex!And it is very unpleasant when we try for every and you reproach.I love do good show for good money I, as well as each model here I deserve it)) Kiss!!yr Megan=)

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Created by: louisphillippe

1/11/13 @ 9:15pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Momentarely in this galaxy while the mother ship r
Posts: 1,234

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That is exactly what I said !.
Models as well as members are in the same situation.
Models work very hard and it is a very stressful job.
Members work hard to pay for a good show too.
:thumbsup

Models deserve more and so do members.
No models no shows,no clients to pay,no happy models.
It goes both ways.
We depend on each other.
Hugs and best wishes Megan....

My :twocents

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Created by: louisphillippe

1/11/13 @ 9:17pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Momentarely in this galaxy while the mother ship r
Posts: 1,234

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That is exactly what I said !.
Is there an echo here??????!!!
Everything comes out in triplicates.... :orglaugh

Something else that doesn't work as it should?
Just asking,no big deal.... :evil

No answer required.

My :twocents

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Created by: louisphillippe

1/11/13 @ 9:20pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Momentarely in this galaxy while the mother ship r
Posts: 1,234

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Created by: ronnie-uk

1/11/13 @ 9:35pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,381

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VS always needs to strike a balance between the interests of its members and the interests of its models.

If it gets it wrong we are all in trouble. If all the wonderful models leave there is no F4F. If all the members leave there is no F4F. If VS doesn't make a profit there is no F4F.

Earlier I mentioned the excellent post by Kheldar which made the case for removing the peeks for security reasons rather than "money grabbing" reasons. It is at the top of this page:

http://www.flirt4free.com/forums/threads.php?forum_id=5&thread_id=16563&pg=3

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Created by: Andy Scotmore

1/15/13 @ 12:46pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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This has been a very informative and interesting thread. There are good points on the pros and the cons of the issues brough up. As far as the "peek" option....I would think a compromise could be made. I haven't seen this brought up yet, but maybe a "peek" could be shown every 2-3 minutes for a few seconds. And with the internet security feature brought up earlier, maybe the "peek" could be a delayed segment....say 10 second delay that is recorded and rebroadcasted. I am not a tech guru, but maybe this would help both ends of the situation.

Also, another thought I have had about the "peek"....specifically after reading some previous comments.....would be to let the customer have control of whether or not the peek is allowed in their private, and at the same time, the model would control the rate of times a peek is show....or it would be a longer preset time as I stated above.

Of course, the last option, and I think this is very realistic and would appease all......is......that every model have the option of pvt (100% pvt, no peeks), pvt with voyeur (preset rate of peeks), multi-user (preset rate of peeks), and of course group and party chat. This setup gives the customer and the model the power to control what is seen or not seen in every sense of the word "seen".

This is all just my response in a brainstorming fashion. Forgive any typos or run-on sentences. Oh, and in response to a comment from earlier......."Come into my room guys!" Haha.....wait....."CUM into my room guys!" That second statement has the double meaning. Marketing genius.

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Created by: bisporti23

1/15/13 @ 4:04pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Germany
Posts: 455

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, Andy!!

There was quite an elaborate discussion in various threads regarding the peek-issue.
I`m sure, the status quo ante will not be reinstated.

Your ideas are the most innovative so far for finding a solution to satisfy all or let�s say many.

Again :thumbsup

Bisport

P.S. ...One thing, though: I doubt anything will come out of it. VS can be quite...hmmm...advice-resistant.

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Created by: Jeffry

1/15/13 @ 10:57pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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This site is really expensive. F4F recently took away the "curtain" peek to encourage members to pay to see what's going on. They run these rediculous speicals saving 5% off credits. They do little for their members. They are about money...bottom line...and that is all.

Never dont worry about money another peoples!!!*=)

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Created by: manner321

1/16/13 @ 1:00pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Posts: 9

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I guess my starting this post has brought up a lot of feelings.

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Created by: Andy Scotmore

1/16/13 @ 6:41pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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Thank you bisporti23! Hopefully a small change can be made to help everyone out.....but who knows.

As I said before, this was a very interesting conversation thread. I will keep my eye out for more conversations in these forums. Manner, I am glad you started it. You got some brain energy going.

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