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Male Performer Chat: Group Chat: Comments, Experiences and Advice

Created by: Adam Foxx & Andy Day

1/8/12 @ 12:25pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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...Ironically I joined a group chat show in progress with Adam and Andy yesterday. Without having read the post about joining late. I did tip as soon as I got in the show because I felt that I would have pledged more than 50 credits if I was to join in the beggining.

...By the way, don't be afraid to join a show in progress. You will still be able to see most everything you expect to see.

Andy and myself really appreciated you dropping in yesterday, Phil. Like Ronnie, I believe you're a true friend to the site in general. I really appreciate how you always have a kind word for everyone, never cause any trouble/drama and from everything that I have seen on the site, have always tried to do what you can to help improve Flirt4Free. Much love and respect to you. :guitar

--AF

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Created by: ronnie-uk

1/8/12 @ 1:21pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,381

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Hi Ronnie! :guitar

As always, I VERY much appreciate your passion and love of helping to continue to make Flirt the best damn cam site in the world. You're a true friend to the entire site and every model and member is in your debt for your support. :bowdown

I just want to clear up a little confusion--which admittedly probably stems from my quick typing (and not enough editing, on my part) before I posted my original post, to which you are responding. (This is mainly for the other members as you and I have always corresponded via site email about this. :thumbsup

(I don't want you to think I'm beating a dead horse haha--hugs)

My INTENT to my original Group Chat Instruction Guide post was to help clear up some confusion about 1) What Group Chat is and how to use it to, 2) Present current challenges that it has from both the model and member sides of things, 3) To present all sides' "arguments" in a neutral position (I don't think I accomplished this as well as I would have liked, unfortunately, but I tried :angel

and 4) To help present both some models position on certain Group Chat experience--both pro and con--and to do the same for members--again both pro and con--so that EVERYONE using it has a better experience. :guitar

To be clear, personally, I don't care if a member joins before or after a Group Chat begins. I appreciate the support all the same. My intent in that section (again, I was probably unclear--my apologies) was to present 1 argument that has been made by some models and how to overcome that in a positive manner. As always, some may agree and some may disagree (and that's the fun of life), but I hope that both you and everyone else understand that my writing this was coming from a good place and not to be disagreeable...just helping. :thumbsup

Much love to you, Ronnie. (BIG HUGS)

--AF

What can I say, Adam? You are far too kind :angel

Taking the site's FAQ as a given starting point, we both agree that it would be handy to have some extra advice so that performers and members can get the best Group Chat experience.

My major concern was about performers trying out Group Chat for the first time, making mistakes and then saying "I'm not going to do another Group Chat". That is mainly why I produced advice aimed at performers, and I have referred 1 or 2 performers to this advice rather than repeat the points in open chat or in an internal message.

I could only think of one piece of advice to give to members: "Pledge quickly". I am very grateful for your additional suggestions.

Shall we wait to see if others want to make an input to this topic, and comment on particular points, before aiming to produce an agreed "best of both" version which will be available in both the Male Performer and Studio and Performers forums?

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Created by: imacumluvr

1/8/12 @ 1:46pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Posts: 382

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Created by: ronnie-uk

1/9/12 @ 2:31pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,381

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Thanks for this helpful response, imacumluvr.

Adam's advice on this point (which is aimed more at members than performers) states:

If a model does NOT do what he has promised, that model has broken his "contract" with those members--and that is NOT right.

and

As long as a GOOD FAITH EFFORT has been given, please give the model the benefit of the doubt.

I wonder whether or not it would be helpful to mention in the advice what might happen where the performer has not acted in good faith and has broken his "contract"? The performer risks getting bad reviews, complaints to VS and losing all the pledged credits for the Group Chat.

In the case of "the worst Group Chat ever" which I described in post #61 this is exactly what happened.

PS Just seen Adam's response. I have corrected "tips" to "pledged credits"

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Created by: Adam Foxx

1/9/12 @ 2:48pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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Adam's advice on this point (which is aimed more at members than performers) states:

"As long as a GOOD FAITH EFFORT has been given, please give the model the benefit of the doubt."

I wonder whether or not it would be helpful to mention in the advice what might happen where the performer has not acted in good faith and has broken his "contract"? The performer risks getting bad reviews, complaints to VS and losing all the tips for the Group Chat.

Something tells me (unfortunately) that models that break their "contract" really aren't concerned with bad reviews/complaints...or they wouldn't be conducting themselves in such a manner. :

To your point about tips, tips are counted (in the system) separately from Group Chat pledges. If a show ends early, models still keep tips given in Group Chat. They would not, however, receive the pledged credits. (That is my understanding from what I've been told by Flirt.)

A great example happened a couple of nights ago during one of Andy and my 20-minute Group Chats. 6 minutes into it, I went to flip onto my back....and like a DUMB FOOL...accidentally kicked my laptop from it's stand. The camera went flying, the Ethernet cable can unplugged (how...I'm still not sure LOL) and we got knocked off line, because we no longer were connected to the Internet. In that first 6 minutes, we had been tipped once (and did not lose that tip, even thought the show ended). I logged back in and asked EVERY MEMBER that had pledged to double check their accounts to make sure their credits were still there. They were, of course, much to everyone's (including myself and Andy's) relief. We restarted a Group Chat pledge drive for the same credit amount--and it was thankfully, successful. Andy and I wanted to make sure members got EXACTLY what we had promised originally. As a bonus to the members, they actually ended up getting a 26-minute show for what we had promised for a 20-minute show, because they had each also seen the first 6 minutes of the show that we had accidentally gotten disconnected from. That seemed fair and honorable to me. From my perspective, it would have seem disrespectful and distasteful, for us to restart the show for the same credit amount and then only do a 15 minute show. As a result, everyone left the Group Chat at the end very happy. :thumbsup

--AF

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Created by: Paul Atreides

1/9/12 @ 3:37pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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7. Party Chat within Group Chat. If you wish to have extra tips in Group Chat before you do certain things, you should make that very clear beforehand. I have seen a (failed) Group Chat advertised as "naked, hard cock, cum show (if you are generous)". Personally, I feel this should be avoided.

I agree with this one wholeheartedly. I was in a group chat a couple of weeks ago where the topic was "stroke hard, ass play, big load of cum". After the goal was met and the group chat started, the model immediately said "400 more tips for cum". We all felt as though we were being ripped off, since we had already pledged for his "big load of cum". Nobody gave any extra tips and the model did not cum in the show. Needless to say, I will not be joining any of his group chats again.

This shouldn't happen, ever.

I will say, however, that there are certain times when extra tips in group chat can lead to a better show without the model violating that contract first. Sometimes it happens that a model will set a goal for a certain type of show, make the pledge goal quickly and easily and, as the show starts, receive some extra tips. When this happens in my room, I'll try to set a goal for those tips. For example, we did a pretty long group show that was already set for a cum shot, about five minutes in I started to receive tips from one member so I set a goal within the group chat to turn the normal cum show into a facial cumshot show. The cumshot was always going to happen, but I gave the option, since there were tips coming in already, to use those tips to reach a certain goal to make the show slightly more than it was when we entered. We made the goal, and I shot a load on my face. It made for a better show.

If this were a more accepted way of doing shows, it would even be conceivable to start a very long show (40 minutes) at a very low rate on the countdown, then, within the show, attract more tips to create a "private party" environment that can become a really amazing show with tons of interaction between the model and members. It's like a party chat that starts at the fun part and escalates to the REALLY fun parts.

Group chat is a really amazing chat type that creates shows which can be equitable to both members and models. It's a beautiful thing. :thumbsup

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Created by: ronnie-uk

1/10/12 @ 2:31pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,381

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@Paul

Thanks for your last post with comments and experiences about tipping in Group Chat.

The "private party" idea sounds like fun, but may only be possible for one or two top performers like you and Adam. I think that many performers would struggle to meet the lowest target for a 30 minute Group Chat without hoping to get additional tips. I think the lowest target for a 15 minute chat is about 1,000 credits, so I assume the lowest target for a 30 minute chat is 2,000.

@Adam

Interested to hear of your experience of a Group Chat which ended due to an accident, and your very satisfactory solution. The excellent way you treat your fans could explain why you and Andy are currently #2 in the Top 20. Congratulations!

Thank you for correcting my earlier reference to Group Chat "tips". I did intend to say "pledged credits". In my defence ( - you are going to be fed up with me saying that! - ) performers and members still use the "Lets Tip" emoticon during the pledge process as there isn't a "Lets Pledge" emoticon yet.

Can I - in the nicest possible way - suggest a correction to one of the points in your very helpful major post (copied here at post #77). You say at point #9 step 8 that members that pledge credits towards a Group Chat DO earn power boost points for the show!!! I am pretty sure this only applies to pledged credits of 300 or more for a single Group Chat.

I attended 2 short Group Chats last night, and pledged 50 and 100. My power boost points remained the same. The Group Chats appeared in my Show History as paid shows of 50 and 100. The Flirt Game guidance states that points are only awarded for paid shows valued at 300 or more credits.

@Everyone

The most important advice to members, apart from reading the site's FAQ to understand how Group Chat works, is to pledge early.

Some performers feel that the best way to encourage early pledges is to penalise those who pledge late. My initial reaction was rather strongly against this. However, I can see that if there was a minimum pledge of 100 for joining a Group Chat after it started this could possibly have benefits all round.

Any (friendly) contributions from members and performers on this point are welcome.

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Created by: Adam Foxx & Andy Day

1/10/12 @ 2:58pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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@Adam

Interested to hear of your experience of a Group Chat which ended due to an accident, and your very satisfactory solution. The excellent way you treat your fans could explain why you and Andy are currently #2 in the Top 20. Congratulations!

::blush:: You are WAY too kind my friend. Just to be mentioned in the same breath as Flirt Legends Stefano and Aaron Best is VERY humbling. (Currently the #1 and #3 ranked models.) Aaron was VERY kind to come to Andy and I's room last night to congratulate us on having a successful first 4 days. He's a true friend, a gentleman and one of the finest performers to EVER grace the site. And of course, Stefano is Stefano--the Alpha and Omega of Flirt4Free. And, in my opinion, one of the friendliest and highest regarded models EVER on the site. His body (ahem) of work speaks for itself. I'm honored to count them both as good friends. I do not even for 1 moment think that I (or my duo) is better than either one of them, Andy and I are just trying to put the best damn show on that we can each and every day. :thumbsup

I pray that the everyone that has come to our room so far is having as great of a time watching us as we are performing for you all. :drinkup

Thank you for correcting my earlier reference to Group Chat "tips". I did intend to say "pledged credits". In my defence ( - you are going to be fed up with me saying that! - ) performers and members still use the "Lets Tip" emoticon during the pledge process as there isn't a "Lets Pledge" emoticon yet.
Unfortunately, as you mention, there is not a "Let's Pledge" emoticon. Perhaps you and some of the other top/well-regarded members on the site could contact Flirt and kindly suggest that addition. :bowdown

Can I - in the nicest possible way - suggest a correction to one of the points in your very helpful major post (copied here at post #77). You say at point #9 step 8 that members that pledge credits towards a Group Chat DO earn power boost points for the show!!! I am pretty sure this only applies to pledged credits of 300 or more for a single Group Chat.

I attended 2 short Group Chats last night, and pledged 50 and 100. My power boost points remained the same. The Group Chats appeared in my Show History as paid shows of 50 and 100. The Flirt Game guidance states that points are only awarded for paid shows valued at 300 or more credits.

I didn't know that! Wow. That is VERY helpful information!!! Thank you, Ronnie. As you discovered this, would you kindly add that to the 20-point thread so that other members know that you discovered it? I'm sure everyone (models and members) would appreciate that point of clarification!!! You rock!!! (Sidebar: I learn something new about the site every day it seems. I love when members learn from models and models learn from members!!! We are in this together men! :guitar

--Adam Foxx, The giant dildo King�� ( :winkwink

)

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Created by: ronnie-uk

1/12/12 @ 9:17am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,381

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I mentioned at post #78 that there were some points included in Adam's previous post (#77) on which I would need some persuading:

1. VS should remove the option to join Group Chat after it has started

2. Those who join the Group Chat pledge process late should pay more

3. Those who join Group Chat after it has started should say "hello"

4. Those who join Group Chat after it has started should give a 50 tip to placate other members

5. Group Chats where the performer says he will cum in 5 minutes should be avoided

On this last point, many members have enjoyed really hot 5-minute Group Chats with Igor Joney which included cum shots every time (see posts #51, #58 and #59 here). I would encourage that, but agree that some caution is sensible. Perhaps the best advice might be to read the reviews on the model's bio page first.

Any comments from other members and performers on these points?

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Created by: farfle1954

1/12/12 @ 10:00am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Macbeth Towers
Posts: 45

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I mentioned at post #78 that there were some points included in Adam's previous post on which I would need some persuading:

1. VS should remove the option to join Group Chat after it has started

2. Those who join the Group Chat pledge process late should pay more

3. Those who join Group Chat after it has started should say "hello"

4. Those who join Group Chat after it has started should give a 50 tip to placate other members

5. Group Chats where the performer says he will cum in 5 minutes should be avoided

On this last point, many members have enjoyed really hot 5-minute Group Chats with Igor Joney which included cum shots every time (see posts #51, #58 and #59 here). I would encourage that, but agree that some caution is sensible. Perhaps the best advice might be to read the reviews on the model's bio page first.

Any comments from other members and performers on these points?

I disagree with points 1 through 4 for the following reasons:

1. This takes away from any extra credits the performer might make from people who were in the room, didn't think they wanted to join the group and then decided to join because of the comments they are seeing from the group chatters. This also penalizes anyone who has just logged on to the site and wants to join a group chat.

2. This also penalizes people who have just logged on. Instead of being encouraged to check out a model in group chat (and maybe spend more later on a private) the effect of this would be to discourage me from entering any model's room that has a "Group Chat" banner on their avatar.

3. This one really doesn't matter much to me, but...how many people in group chat actually chat anyway? And, do you really want to be interrupted by unnecessary hellos every few seconds? Again, not a big deal to me either way.

4. To placate how many members? The few that have coughed up more than the 50 credit minimum. or all the others that have only contributed the minimum? Yes, there have been times when I have contributed several hundred credits at the last to make a chat happen, then seen numerous members join after the goal was met. But that was my decision to spend those credits and has nothing to do with other members. I have also been in plenty of group chats where I only pledged the 50 credit minimum. To say anyone joining group chat after it started must tip 50 credits will probably mean a loss of credits to the model, as I would not join a group chat knowing that I had to tip, whether I wanted to or not.

On the last point, I agree with you: be cautious. Read reviews. Question the model (anytime a model says they will cum in a 5 or even 10 minute group chat, I always ask "Are you sure you can do that?")

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Created by: pj_456

1/12/12 @ 10:49am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Posts: 143

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1. VS should remove the option to join Group Chat after it has started

2. Those who join the Group Chat pledge process late should pay more

3. Those who join Group Chat after it has started should say "hello"

4. Those who join Group Chat after it has started should give a 50 tip to placate other members

5. Group Chats where the performer says he will cum in 5 minutes should be avoided

Ronnie, To your #'s 1-4, I feel a member should be allowed to join late if they desire. Obviously the chat goal has been met and any additional pledges after the chat starts are a plus. I don't think late pledgers should have to pay more. Whether someone pledges 100 credits (just as a example) before the show starts or after, it is still 100 credits and the only loser is the late pledger. There are different scenarios for late pledging I am sure, and not all of them are made with good intentions but we can't stop that.
As to your #5, I agree that caution should be taken.

Just a general statement, Too many rules spoils the fun and that's what most of us are here for, fun.

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Created by: phil_usa

1/12/12 @ 11:29am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Driving Down Thunder Road
Posts: 4,747

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...I disagree with points 1&2

...I am fine with point 3

...I think point 4 is fair, but up to the individual

...I have not had any problem with the 5 min. group chats.

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Created by: ronnie-uk

1/13/12 @ 10:51am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,381

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Thanks for these latest comments.

On your general statement, PJ_456, I can confirm that Adam and I will be working together to produce advice which helps members and performers to get the best possible Group Chat experience. His major post (copied at post #77) includes a number of good pieces of advice that we can all readily agree with. None of us want to see "rules" which spoil the fun

Points 1 and 2 were included in Adam's post as issues rather than advice. Interesting that some performers are strongly in favour of these points, while members are not. I can't see VS making any changes now, if the last 3 responses here represent the wider view of all members. Haven't seen any convincing argument in support of these points.

The responses to point 3 here are more borderline. This is the current advice that Adam is offering:

#5--Entering the Group Chat AFTER the Show Has Begun: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE say hello to the model (either as a whisper or to the entire room)!!!!! It is friendly. Also, often times there are SEVERAL members in the Group Chat and the model may not have noticed that you have come in. A top model will want to welcome you to his Group Chat and at the very least say hello to you as well. However, if the model is VERY busy performing, he may not be able to stop what he is is doing and call you out by name. He is NOT trying to be disrespectful...he's just focused on putting on a damn good Group Chat for you all. I know you all understand that...and we top models APPRECIATE IT!!!!

farfle1954 asks whether we really want to be interrupted by unnecessary hellos every few seconds. Each late arrival is automatically announced by "xxxxxxx has just pledged 50 credits to the Group Chat", so in my view no extra introduction is really needed. If, as Adam suggests, late arrivals are rather unpopular with some members and performers, that provides another reason for NOT saying "hello" while the Group Chat show is in progress.

I have visited Adam a few times and he is very friendly, and seems to have an amazing ability to chat to many people at the same time. I don't think that most performers can manage this, or would even try to do this - particularly during the shorter Group Chats and those where the performer types rather than talks.

As always, all comments are welcome.

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Created by: toppgun

1/13/12 @ 11:34am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Great White North
Posts: 278

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farfle1954 asks whether we really want to be interrupted by unnecessary hellos every few seconds. Each late arrival is automatically announced by "xxxxxxx has just pledged 50 credits to the Group Chat", so in my view no extra introduction is really needed. If, as Adam suggests, late arrivals are rather unpopular with some members and performers, that provides another reason for NOT saying "hello" while the Group Chat show is in progress.

I have visited Adam a few times and he is very friendly, and seems to have an amazing ability to chat to many people at the same time. I don't think that most performers can manage this, or would even try to do this - particularly during the shorter Group Chats and those where the performer types rather than talks.

As always, all comments are welcome.

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Created by: toppgun

1/13/12 @ 11:37am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Great White North
Posts: 278

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I have had nothing but good experiences with group chat :thumbsup

I will say my motto of "kiss" applies here "Keep it simple silly" as too many rules will take away from the experience. Just my :twocents

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Created by: Adam Foxx & Andy Day

1/13/12 @ 2:16pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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Just wanted to clear up a couple of items, as there seems to be a little bit of confusion stemming from my original post. :angel

Ronnie's Items #1 and 2: I did not suggest that VS should remove the option to join a group chat after it has started or that members should pay more. What I had said (in a neutral way...as I don't have a personal opinion about either one way or the other) is that SOME members and SOME models feel that this should happen. My intent of my post was to post ALL points of views, so that members (and models) could better understand why some model (and members) get upset when certain things happen, so that we could ALL gain learnings and hopefully all have a better Group Chat experience. :bowdown

Ronnie's Item #3: Saying hello after you join--To Ronnie and Phil's point, this is probably me being admittedly biased as I try to be very welcoming in my room. It's just my upbringing coming out that would "force" me to say hello to new people, so that they feel welcome. Members are certainly under no obligation to say hello. :winkwink

Ronnie's Item #4: I had said, "If I may humbly suggest a way to avoid these negative feelings: If you enter the Group Chat AFTER the show has begun, as a gesture of GOOD FAITH and kindness, you may want to consider tipping an additional 50 credits to show the model (and other members) that you're one of "the good guys". :guitar

(But please know you have no obligation to do so.)" This isn't a requirement. I'm just trying to think of ways to inhibit some of the negativity that I've seen recently, as it's no fun for members or models. :angel

Ronnie's Item #5: I stand by this one. LOL It's just not realistic for most performers to be able to cum in 5 minutes. Can it happen? Sure. Is it the norm on average? No. We're men--not robots. ;) To the advice that you review a model's reviews that someone else suggested, that is also a great idea.

xoxo :thumbsup

--Adam Foxx (of Adam Foxx & Andy Day)
Twitter (follow both of us at): @AdamFoxxModel

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Created by: pj_456

1/13/12 @ 4:57pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Posts: 143

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I have had nothing but good experiences with group chat :thumbsup

I will say my motto of "kiss" applies here "Keep it simple silly" as too many rules will take away from the experience. Just my :twocents

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Created by: ronnie-uk

1/13/12 @ 5:04pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,381

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I have had nothing but good experiences with group chat :thumbsup

I will say my motto of "kiss" applies here "Keep it simple silly" as too many rules will take away from the experience. Just my :twocents

Thanks for your comment, toppgun.

I agree with the idea of keeping it simple. My advice to members at post #71 consisted of just one point: Pledge Quickly.

One-point advice may be a bit too simple, and there are a number of good points in Adam's post #77 which are well worth including in any advice. For simplicity, the more debatable points there might be omitted or shortened if there is not a strong case for keeping them.

Nice to know that you have nothing but good experiences with Group Chat so far. Nearly all of my experiences of Group Chats have been good too, but there was one bad one (at post #61). Post #83 describes an unsatisfactory experience at a Group Chat which imacumluvr joined in. There have also been a number of Group Chats which didn't actually get off the ground because the performers made common mistakes. It is good to have advice which is there to help.

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Created by: ronnie-uk

3/3/12 @ 9:13pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,381

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I think it is good that from time to time Phil-USA bumps his topic: Group Chat...Beware so that new models know that they should not end a Group Chat early. If they do, they lose all the credits that were pledged for the Group Chat. (Thanks, Phil, for your links to this topic btw :thumbsup

)

I think this topic is worth bumping too, because it contains lots of useful comments and advice from members and top models about Group Chat. Two particular points that I think are worth highlighting:

Nudity - some models think they are giving Group Chat their best shot when they show lots of hard cock and ass shots during the pledge period. This is almost suicidal! It makes the model seem rather desperate. Also, lots of guys will not pledge if they can see all they want for free.

Picture Quality - it is always good for models to ask if members are happy with the picture quality. Many models get it just right, but some have problems that stop members from pledging. I have seen a number of examples (including tonight). The extremes are:

- too high quality picture that jumps or freezes. Members are concerned that they might miss the highlight of the show.

- too low quality picture. Members are concerned that the highlight of the show will be just a blur.

Hope that some of the newer models find this helpful

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Created by: Cupidonn

3/13/12 @ 6:10pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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Well, Cupidonn, we will just need to imagine. :angel

Interesting to know that you asked them about it.

Last year, before you were with your present management, you had 2 or more in some of your shows. Pleased to see that your collection of VODs from last year is still available through your bio page. :thumbsup

thank you

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